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by Chip from Phillipston, Mass

Last Post 2 days, 16 hours Ago


I have blogged and responded extensively to the issue of illegal aliens.  I oppose any proposal that gives amnesty, por that allows, in any way, foriegn national from coming into this country in illegal fashions.

 

However, over the weekend, I was educated in what it is like to be a legal alien, and the restrictions and the regulations they must follow.  Now, I'm not arguing that we shoul dnot have restrictions, nor am I arguing that we should not have regulations.  The regulation of immigration is both sensible from an economic and national security perspective.

 

What smacked me in the face was how stupid we are, as a country, in our different treatment of illegal and legal aliens.  OkieDokie and I took a collegue of hers and his friend to the playoff game on Saturday in Foxboro.  Both of these gentlemen are Indian nationals (I'm talkin' India here, folks...).  They are here legally, with valid "Green Cards".  They did all the things they had to do legally to get here.  They both work daily, in responsible jobs.  They pay taxes to both the Federal government and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.  They pay Social Security tax in spite of the fact that they, if their status stays the same, cannot collect it.

 

Neither of these men complains about this, and both are in the process of seeking citizenship.  I'd be proud if these men were "Americans". 

 

Me being me, I had to ask....":How do yo feel about all of this talk about illegal aliens?"  Now, understand that I have talked politics with "Girish" before.  He is a conservative man in every way but his stance on "the war", or for that matter, "war in general".  "Remember Chip, I come from India, where Gandhi drove the British out with firing a shot."

 

This highly intelligent, soft spoken man of kindness' face hardened.  Spittle formed at the corner of his mouth.  He went on and on.  He even interjected a few "four letter words", spoken in perfect, yet accented English.  I wondered if Gandhi ever swroe....certainly this man doesn't frequently.

 

He told us of how unfair it is.  I pulled out of him; he is a humble man; how hard he worked to get here.  The two years of waiting, the endless paperwork.  The "finding a job where people could wait" for his Green card to come through.  He spoke of the taxes he paid, not from a perspective of resentment at our government, but from a deep resentment that he paid taxes, the benefits of which he doesn't receive, that illegals are tapping into.  This is a responsible, honest, hardworking gentleman, who owns a home and two cars.  He has a pregnant wife and a young son.  They speak English in their home, and thses two Indian gentlemen speak English to each other.  He spoke of the insulting interview with the consulate in Bombay, where his wife was told, "We don't think your marriage is real.  We think you are lying to gain entry."  But mostly he spoke of honesty, of the value of rules, and the requirement that good men behave legally.

 

And when he realized that both OkieDokie and I respect him both for his work coming here, and his values while here, he told us the truth....the sad, heart-wrenching truth about America.  We punish the legal immigrants and allow the illegal ones to get off scot-free.  Because he is registered;because he went through the paperwork to get here,because there is a record of his immigration, his behavior here is monitored.  His "Green Card" allows him to work here, but requires him to leave if he loses his job.  If he leaves his job, for any reason, he must find another within 10 days, or face deportment.  He cannot tap into unemployment, in spite of the fact that he paid in.  This man has paid state and federal taxes since the day her arrived.  He owns a home and two cars.  He pays property taxes and excise tax.  But gone he'd be.

Here's my question: How dumbassed is it to treat the folks who follow your rules worse than you do those who break them?  If you even begin to wonder why we are in the mess we are in, just go speak to legal aliens!  They are just plain more sophisticated.....

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sirB read my blog
Jan 14, 2008 | 11:03 AM

Chip,

This is why we have such a huge problem. We attract them to this country bigtime. We have stupid politicians like the moron we have as governor treating them like victims. In0state tuition for them, but not the hardworking middle class taxpayers from bordering states who have worked here and paid the tolls for years. IT MAKES ZERO SENSE!! I cannot beleive they even entertain the idea of giving them a drivers lecense. I could go on and on.

I feel for your friends, they're getting screwed!!

jonsmom read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 11:37 AM

I appreciate the fact that people who come here legally to live and work face a lot of obstacles to get here. However, I don't feel they're treated unfairly. There are rights and privileges
that should only be afforded to citizens. Since 9/11 there may be more hoops to jump through, but it's a necessity. I agree that certain members of our fine Massachusetts government want to give illegal aliens special treatment and that is wrong. However, there has to be incentive for people to want to become citizens. If legal aliens were entitled to everything citizens are, then they wouldn't want to become citizens. Just like the illegals will not want to become legal if things are handed to them. While I feel for your friends, at least they own property and are living a decent life here. That is not the case for many other legal aliens and American citizens. They still have more than some who were born here. I understand they worked for it and I believe they deserve it. I just wish our government would do more for the citizens than they are so all could live the "American Dream". I have a friend who is a citizen of France. He went through a lot to come here too. He is living a successful life in California but when he wanted to go to his wife's family home in Canada, he had a hard time because he is still an "alien". He will only buy American made products and loves living here. He does not, however, wish to become a citizen. He knows what that means for him and is willing to accept it.

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 12:12 PM

I don't think Girish was saying he was being treated unfairly, jonsmom...he was angry that folks disrespected the work he did...

JuneInMA read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 12:18 PM

Chip,

I want to comment on this so much, but there is SO MUCH on both sides of the ball that most people are not aware of. I wouldn't even know where to start. The meeting he had with the consulate was pleasant in comparison to what I have witnessed. It is NOT an easy process for legal OR illegal immigrants. It's not as black and white as we would like it to be, not that I'm excusing violating the law, but it's pretty bad.

Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 12:48 PM

...Reminds of the PBS show "Nature" that I watched last night while the rest of you were more than likely melting your brains watching the other BLEEP that was on TV.
Last night's episode of "Nature" unknowingly gave a trenchant metaphor of human life when talking about sled-dogs: "The competitive dogs fight for front-position to be the "alpha-dog", or "most respected". Ironically, the least aggressive or "least respected dog" who winds up in the back very humbly accepts the heaviest workload, as he hauls most of the weight."
So basically, the greedy little bastard who demands the limelight gets the most respect for doing the least, while the pacifist who yields the accolades to another winds up with the heaviest burden.
The moral is that humility accepts the greatest burden, but eventually finds the greatest reward; whether you're a dog, human, or something else...

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 1:07 PM

June....write everything....I was appalled. Folks with "green cards" are our GUESTS..I ahve an expectatin of how guests should be treated...and it should be a damned site better than an "intruder" which is all an illegal is....I'm not saying give away the farm, or even relax the rules...but I am saying tht we sh ould enforce against those who are illegal as aggressively as we do with those who are legal...don't you think?

kayleisnana read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 1:42 PM

I know there is NO simple solution, but, would it be possible, or even acceptable, if the state would set down specific rules in order for the children of the illegals to get their educations? In order for them to qualify, then it should be mandatory for each and every one of the students to establish "legal residency". I understand that they are "illegal", but, unfortunately, the children are here only because their parents brought them. If we can't start with the parents, why not start with the children? I don't think they would object. The only ones who would are here for the wrong reasons and should not be entitled to ANYTHING!!! But, honestly, why should the children be punished for their parents' actions? It seems like a good place to start!

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 2:43 PM

Atually, Kaylesnana, the children of illegals are "legal". It's called "birthright citizenship" and is one of the biggest flaws in our system....that anyone born on our soil is automatically a citizen....no mater the status of the parents....

But it places immigration in a bind..how can you send home a mother and leave the child...

Ron Paul argues against "birthright citizenship" in his campaign stuff..but that's not even my point...myh pint being that we enforce harder against the legal folks than the illegal folks...then what benefit is ther to be legal..

JuneInMA read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 2:54 PM

kayleisnana,

You just said what I've been waiting for someone to realize. The children are not at fault for what their parents do and it's cruel to punish them. I understand it's still a touchy subject since it is tax payers money being used, but something sensible should be able to be reached. I came here when I was 5. NO ONE asked me for my opinion on whether or not I wanted to come, they just brought me.

Also, jonsmom, I GUARANTEE there isn't one illegal immigrant out there that wants to remain illegal. They may choose to not become US Citizens like your friend, but they definitely want legal US Resident status or 'Green Card'. No matter what they are able to take advantage of, I guarantee you it's not worth it when you have to look over your shoulder all the time. It's not fun. The situations vary so much and some of the people that are still considered "illegal" have been left in limbo by the US for YEARS! I know, I have seen it. They go through all the paperwork, the years of interviews and don't get a response one way or the other from the authorities. My friend's mother was such a case....to be continued.......

JuneInMA read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 3:11 PM

...continued from last blog.....

My friend's mother came here on a valid Visa. She, her husband and kids applied for US Residency (Green Card), they were granted a "temporary" green card that allowed them to stay, work and travel. Well, 10 years later (no, this is not a typo), her mother had a heart attack in the Dominican Republic and she had to go see her. Well, you would think 'no problem, her temporary card allows her to travel'....well, she made it there ok. Her stay was fine. When she tried to leave, immigration arrested her and accused her of falsifying her papers. A WEEK later, immigration in the US confirmed her papers and she was allowed to return. The worse thing is not that week she spent arrested, the worse thing was the 10 YEARS she had been in limbo with no decision. That is the story of a lot of "illegals" folks. I'm not saying everyone is squeeky clean, but a lot of the folks go through some serious injustices even when they try to do things right. I've SEEN corrupt US consulate members in my country 'hinting' that if money is paid, the process of obtaining a visa could be expedited or guaranteed. So if you are not rich, you are screwed. You are not allowed to do it legally. These are just a couple of examples. I can fill a book with the things I've witnessed.

Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 3:21 PM

Hey Chip, I just caught your majorly hypocritical remarks on Joe Battenfeld's "Would Hillary Iron Your Shirts?" or whatever it's called blog. I see you're still shamelessly riding that sanctimonious train through hypocrisy-ville...nice...

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 3:26 PM

June,

Keep it coming!!! I hear you...but let me play devils advocate (or in this case, Duh-val's Advocate!!!): I can guarantee you there is no robber who does not want to be affluent! It's the same theory as illegals being citizens...it's not about the goal, it's about HOW YOU GET TO IT!!!

My friend, Girish was not complaining about waqt he had to go through. (Don't get me wrong, he was mad about some mid level consulate employee calling his wife a liar, but so would I. He handled it better than I would have!!!t keep it coming. I can't think of anything I need to be educated on more...

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 3:32 PM

June,

I just read the seocnd half of the post...his point exactly....why did we have to be so unkind to HER. She did it right!!! Why aren't we welcoming her with open arms? She did it the legal way, right? Why are we not rewarding the legal way rather than making excuses for the illegal way?

jonsmom read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 3:48 PM

June, I know not everyone who is here illegally sneaked across a border. I know some have been in paperwork purgatory. I can only assume the hell it must be to constantly look over your shoulder.
When I hear of giving amnesty to illegals, I go nuts. I don't think we should. However, the government should do something for the people who have at least put an effort into becoming legal residents or citizens. But not all illegals have done anything to try. They just came here illegally. In those ten years did your friend do any follow-up? Hound the people who were supposed to be helping her get a permanent green card or residency? It's not the government's fault that the Dominican Immigration thought the paperwork was false. I work with a woman from South Africa who is going through something similar. She didn't get arrested or accused of having false paperwork but she recently went there to see family. She was supposed to be back ten days ago but is still there trying to straighten out her paperwork. My point is that if anyone wants to be here legally, they need to do all they can to be sure it happens. Anyone not willing to do this should not be here. cont...

jonsmom read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 3:51 PM

What also gets me is how the people without visas or green cards can work. My son almost didn't get to start a job because he couldn't produce his original social security card. I had a copy, but the employer didn't want to accept it. Tell me why a kid born here should have a difficult time getting a job because he lost his ss card. He had his birth certificate and driver's license. If we have to go through so much just to work, why shouldn't people who are not citizens, legal or not?

JuneInMA read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 3:57 PM

I have no idea. She did do it legally, and yet…….I’m just wondering why the 10 year wait. Why leave that poor woman who by the end of it all had anxiety issues waiting 10 years!!! ANY decision would have done. The uncertainty was what was killing her. I have quite a few stories. The one about the corrupt US consulates in my country could be told several times, I’ve seen it happen that many times. I’m not talking about asking for fees that would be expected for the process, I’m talking bribery which is downright unfair, but most importantly, dangerous. I’ve known family member who have had their applications “lost” by immigration several time and each time have had to start the whole process from scratch. After being a legal US resident in this country for 14 years, I had to wait nearly 3 YEARS to be granted citizenship!! The process is long and while you are waiting, you are often considered “illegal” and can be sent home for any reason they choose. It’s scary and I am NOT excusing illegal immigration, it’s just……….it’s hard when you know the injustices a lot of them go through. I can’t excuse it, but I do feel very bad for them. Like you say Chip, there is no magic wand we can waive and make it all better. We’ll just have to continue trying to come up with a way to fix this big mess.

kayleisnana read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 3:57 PM

I understand the "birthright citizenship" status of those children born in this country to those who are illegals, Chip; I was speaking more of those who were brought into this country as infants or small children. I know there is NO easy solution to this, but, I still don't believe the children should pay for their parents' illegal acts. At least give them a fair shake at a life. More than what their parents are doing! It's kind of on the same idea as when children are born to American citizens who are convicted felons, and because the courts feel that it should still try and keep a relationship within the "family" and order that the children be subjected to that lifestyle by forcing visitation to the jails!!!!! Again, the children are the victims--caught up in the parents' illegal behaviors!!! How can we expect such good from children when they don't have a shot???? I wish our government would take a better look at what is truly good for the children.

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 4:22 PM

But June, please remember for the rest of us, YOU have a fantastic window for the rest of us to look through. You have the background, the family. Your folks did it the legal way, and I bet you have a myriad of stories about how the US government was worse to legals than they are to illegals.

Our citizenry has to be educated, and we won't by lily-white guys like me...who offer opinions second hand. They will be by fine, hardworking, ethical folks like you who lived life the hard way and found success. YOU are the role model...

JuneInMA read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 4:24 PM

jonsmom,

She did follow up. She hired a lawyer who also followed up. The standard response was that she was "in process". She went to countless interviews with immigration to no avail and it is somewhat the fault of the US that she was arrested in Dominican Republic because there was no reason to keep this woman in limbo for 10 years! Had they decided her status, she either would have been there for good or would have had no problems exiting the country. Ultimately, they (immigration) felt so bad about what they did to her, that when they finally granted her her 'Green Card', they allowed her to immediately apply for US Citizenship rather than wait the required 5 years. And yes, you are right, not everyone does what they are supposed to, but you'd be surprised at the number that do try and get put through hell. It's like Chip says, if they are trying to do the right thing, let's reward that and make it as simple as possible rather than the hell it is right now. Of course, if they are NOT trying to do anything.....no sympathy.

jovanone read my blog view my photos
Jan 14, 2008 | 4:24 PM

Our country is so liberal it’s not even funny. We started this problem of illegal aliens some time ago by allowing these people to stay here. Now it’s become an overwhelming problem that’s gotten out of control and we don’t know how to deal with it.
I for one have no problem in sending these illegals back to wherever they came from. It doesn’t matter to me how long they’ve been here, whether they’re working or not. I say the government should confiscate their homes, cars, bank accounts and any other things they’ve earned while being here illegally. If their kids are in school then they should be removed and sent back with their parents to wherever they came from, regardless of how long they’ve been here or how old their kids are. These people rolled the dice by staying here working and placing their kids in school. They knew they were doing this illegally when they did it, so don’t feel so sorry for them, now it’s time to pay the piper. There are no ifs ands or buts about it, if you’re here illegally that’s what happens to you and your family if and when you’re caught, you suffer the consequences. No matter how harsh you may think this sounds, this has to be done in order to stop this from continuing to happen in the future.
Stop feeling so sorry for these people; remember these people are going to school for nothing and to college for nothing and free health care. Do you think these illegals feel sorry for you and me that we can’t do the same thing for our kids? If you think for one minute they do, then you’re kidding yourself. They’re laughing at us and thin

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Chip

Just your average guy, married to a woman who is incredibly smart and possibly more conservative than I am. Father of three and grandfather of one. Devoted Patriots fan and season ticket holder, snowmobile enthusiast and lifelong public servant.

Member Since: 9/26/2006