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Panic At Nabisco

by Graham_Cracker from Plympton

Last Post 4 days, 4 hours Ago


Has anyone heard about this guy, Joe Horn from Texas?

Apparently, he was being burglarized, and caught the perps in the act.  He called 911.  While on the phone with the dispatch, he said, "they're gettin' away!"  The dispatch said, "calm down, it's not worth killing someone over."

Despite the warning from the 911 operator, Joe Horn wasn't about to let someone get away with trying to steal his property.  On the 911 recording, he can be heard loading his rifle and firing.

A grand jury in Texas sent a message to future criminals when they cleared Joe Horn of any wrongdoing whatsoever.  If I could, I would seriously move to Texas.  It would sure beat living in limp-wristed Massachusetts, where a 7-year old kid can't even enjoy a summer day without getting shot in the back because of this state's liberal attitude towards crime.

This is a new world, folks.  What does it take?  When do we finally say "enough is enough" and send thugs and criminals the message that we won't live in fear any longer?

Just imagine if we actually dealt with criminals the way they should be dealt with.  We've become so jaded in Massachusetts in our attitudes toward crime that we can't even appreciate the absurdity of just how much crime there is here.  But if we could have the peace of mind to know that our judicial system would actually punish criminals and protect citizens instead of the current reversal of that concept, perhaps crime would actually drop!

Now that I've gotten all of the liberal panty-waists' panties in a bunch, I'm ready for the snarky, elitist, sarcasm.   Let it commence...
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legendkiller34 read my blog
Jul 1, 2008 | 8:23 AM

Graham,
You are right, Mass. is weak, it's the laughing block of all the other states.
Example: juveniles, who commit crimes, why aren't there names published?
If you're old enough to do the crime.
We just had a case of a 14yr old pushing an elderly man off a dock in Falmouth, the guy's okay just some cuts, but that's not the point,
They arrest the kid, he get's his 1 phone call and he calls his friends to brag.
DO THEY PUBLISH HIS NAME?
OH NO NO NO, NOT IN MASS, IT'S BECAUSE HE'S A JUVENILE.
WHAT A FREAKEN JOKE

nomorehacks read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 8:23 AM

I can't leave my house with out seeing a radar trap. It seems to me The Boston police knows where the high crime areas are, then why do't they flood those areas with cops! Probably because there is no "revenue" to be raised in doing so ! Texas is the last real america.

NorthernObserver read my blog
Jul 1, 2008 | 8:34 AM

EXCELLENT point, Nomorehacks! Government in Mass. has simply become a revenue generating machine. The MA Congress is worried about casinos and cigarette tax. Where is the law to protect kids from child molesters? Where is the law to break up and arrest gang members? Where is the law that says if you commit a crime with a gun, you go to prison for a very long time? What the heck are they doing on Beacon Hill anyway? It seems like all they do is figure out more ways to take your money away from you. What separates them from the criminal robber is that they call it taxes and fees not robbery.

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 9:07 AM

I am as "pro law and order" as the next guy and rarely have I been called liberal by anyone who has not been diagnosed with a major mental illness. But, I have to tell you, I just don't see property as a reason to kill another human being, no matter what my feelings are about what the state might do, or my feelings about scumbags who rob people in their homes.

"Gunslinger justice" is only romantic on television, or in the eyes of a person who has not taken a life. What one gains in property , by taking a life in this instance, he/she mortgages tenfold in his soul. It just ain't worth it.

The rub comes in where societal consequences (or in the Commonwealth's example, the lack there of) come into play. It certainly would be easier, and less dangerous for the homeowner to simply click a picture with the trusty cameraphone, and turn that picture over to the authorities. Of course we know that that person would receive a "slap on the wrist" here.

But I'm betting that in Texas, he'd have been breaking rocks in the hot sun...and that would have been a vastly superior alternative to killing.

Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 9:18 AM

Chip, your "solution" is just more of the same; and we know how well THAT has worked.

I find it funny that you are so embarrassed to admit what you are: a liberal. You remind me of someone who peruses gay porn, cheats on his wife with a man, but then adamantly denies being homosexual. You can't have it both ways. You have expressed a far greater number of liberal views than conservative, thus, you're a liberal.

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 11:08 AM

I should have expected so intellectual a response...get back to us on all the times you've popped a cap...

Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 11:47 AM

I've fired PLENTY of guns - probably more than you have - but never at another human being.

But this is talking AROUND the point, which is part & parcel of being a liberal.

The point is that the crime-rate would drop faster than a trucker's cash supply at the gas-station if we were allowed to treat criminals like...CRIMINALS. The threat of "breaking rocks in the hot sun" is only going to possibly make them think of a song by The Clash, but it won't break their stride in heading for their next target.
I would not be "mortgaging my soul" knowing that what I had done by shooting a criminal may have prevented him from going to another house and possibly killing an INNOCENT person. Call me "crazy" (or "someone who has been diagnosed with a major mental illness") all you please; I'm on the side of INNOCENT people in these cases.
Joe Horn may have prevented that burglar from "graduating" to murder. I hope for his sake he sleeps very soundly, because I think what he did is heroic.
But I know Chip, even though - yet again - you take another liberal position, you're "not a liberal." Even though the ACLU would be on YOUR side in this debate, that's just a co-inky-dink. Have it your way, bub.

jonsmom read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 12:46 PM

Dave,

Good to see you back for a bit. I have to say I agree with you on this one. Joe Horn, in my opinion, should never even have faced charges. Given the opportunity, I would like to say I would do the same thing.

Chip,
Property may be just materialistic things, but nobody has the right to trespass and take what doesn't belong to them. Some people would not survive without "someone else". You know, someone else's belongings, someone else to blame, etc. I've never shot a gun but if I had one, and had to use it to protect my family or property, I wouldn't feel a bit bad. No matter what the outcome.

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 12:57 PM

I frankly do not care what label you put on ME. My OPINION has sense to it. Absolutley nowhere in either our Constitutional form of legal system, not in any Judeo-christian outlook, do we kill people for what they MIGHT do. To suggest that we create some proacitve death penalty for those who might commit crimes is both ludacrous and barbaric. It is also Un-American at its core, and as "UnGodly" as any you'll ever hear.

The issue here is not solved by citizens randomly inflicitng sa self imposed death penalty for possible future crimes, but instead by decent people petitioning our government for more strict, and sensible enforcement of the existing laws.

If that makes me a liberal, then I guess I'm proudly liberal. But I will say this, the decision to take a human life is the single most life altering decision a person can make. That's why there are 2 psychological casualties for each physical casualty amounst active combat veterans.

Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 1:14 PM

Jonsmom,

Thank you for your support on this one...much appreciated.

Chip,

This isn't about a label. This is about the world we are living in. The judicial system has taken to letting sex offenders go free and romp through libraries to re-offend. They've taken to slaps on the wrist, all the while you're risking your life if you don't wear a Kevlar suit in Roxbury. This is the world we live in, Chip.
Overcrowded jails have changed my opinion on what should be done about it. A message needs to be sent out whether you think it's harsh or not. The criminal world needs to be dealt with HARSHLY. The cops have their hands full, and can't do it all.
I still think Joe Horn should have had to face a jury, but I applaud the jury for protecting HIM - THE VICTIM - and allowing THE VICTIM to protect himself and make the next S.O.B. think twice.

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 1:59 PM

Now, if we are talking about "allowing THE VICTIM to protect himself", as opposed to his property, using deadly force, I'm on board. The use of deadly force in situation of imminent life threat is a no brainer. I'm just not prepared to shoot a person cause he's stealin' my Sony...

AND, more importantly, I'm willing to, and have consistently both lobbying my legislators and in the ballot box, take the long hard road to societal protection.

We are still, and from my perspective proudly, a society of laws and not of men. It's the main thing that separates us from the likes of Pol Pot or Hugo Chavez to name a couple.

herbdaniels read my blog
Jul 1, 2008 | 7:38 PM

Joe Horn in Massachusetts would have plea bargained down to a year sentence, serving about 4 months before being released with 2 years of joke probation and a record of involuntary manslaughter........I am sure he is happy to be in Texas.
If Joe Horn had been caught smoking a joint, he would probably be happier in California, as Texas would lock him up and throw away the key.

Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 9:19 PM

"AND, more importantly, I'm willing to, and have consistently both lobbying my legislators and in the ballot box, take the long hard road to societal protection."

Chip,

Look, I don't mean to sound like a Harry Harda**. I appreciate the intentions of what you're saying. But I just think that you're a little too unrealistically idealistic for the climate of the world today.
You have to realize that we are all potentially the cornered animal. You could be subject to the mercy of the judicial system within the next week (which I certainly hope you are not) and find the scales tipped in the favor of the criminal.
I just think that so long as a guy like Joe Horn still has to be sifted through the judicial system - more times than not - the scale should be tipped in HIS favor; not the criminal's.

Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jul 1, 2008 | 10:10 PM

I'd like to add, that of course I would hate to be put in the position of killing another human being for any reason. But if I knew it was for justice, I wouldn't lose as much sleep. Justice is the reason Jesus died on the Cross.

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jul 2, 2008 | 5:45 AM

No David....Jesus died for forgiveness...not justice...forgiveness.

FoxFan67 read my blog view my photos
Jul 2, 2008 | 4:14 PM

I'm jumping in on this one ....

Let me start by saying I love the town I live in , I love the State I live in , and I love the country I am a citizen of. Yes , somethings I agree with some I disagree. But to allow everyone to just shoot anyone for stealing that is crazy. So if I own a store and a 12 year old comes in and steals a peiice of candy I can pull out a gun and shoot him dead ?
And to tell you honestly I think if you moved to Texas, it would not be all it is cut out to be.

C_Fox read my blog view my photos
Jul 3, 2008 | 2:09 AM

I don't really know how this man was any better a person than the intruder. He sounds like a renegade who decided to take the law into his own hands. Actually, he went beyond the law and killed someone when it may not have been necessary. He could have aimed the gun and told the intruder to drop on the floor and put his hands behind his head. He had already called police, so knew they were on their way. If the intruder lunged toward him, or had a weapon, then he could claim self-defense. None of this happened. This shooter wanted revenge for someone trying to steal from him. He sounds just as dangerous to me.

Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jul 3, 2008 | 8:18 AM

Chip,

Jesus was PUNISHED on OUR behalf, as payment for OUR sins; that's justice.

Chrissy,

Mr. Horn had to face a jury for what he did. As I stated before, I think any citizen who kills another person for any reason should have to answer to a jury; I'm just glad that this jury decided to PROTECT the VICTIM in this case instead of punish him.
I don't think a twelve-year old should be shot for stealing a piece of candy, but I'll bet if he knew that death was a possible consequence, he wouldn't even think about stealing.
A law I would support is cashiers being able to shoot to kill if they're being held up. The Dunkin Donuts next to the Tedeschi's in Plymouth had to close during the overnight hours because of all the hold-ups. It might be open if the cashiers were allowed to protect themselves.

Foxy,

Mr. Horn sounded a warning to the intruder. He can be heard threatening him with death if he moved.

Xantun read my blog view my photos
Jul 3, 2008 | 10:50 AM

Graham, one thing you missed with your post. Mr. Horn was NOT defending HIS property. It was his neighbor's house being robbed. That's what started the whole debate over his actions. Texas law at the time had recently been changed to allow people who LEGALLY own guns to protect their own property with deadly force (the "castle doctrine" Mr. Horn refers to in his 911 call), but it didn't say anything about someone else's property.

And for the record, I wish a lot more neighbors were at least a little more like Mr. Horn, minus all the violence. He apparently didn't know these neighbors very well, but still tried to protect them from this theft all the same. If more neighbors actually looked out for each other, there wouldn't be as big of a problem with sex offenders and drug dealers as there is today.

FoxFan67 read my blog view my photos
Jul 3, 2008 | 11:28 AM

Interesting twist Xan.......

I look out for my neighbors here, but I would pick up a phone and call 911 before I began shooting wildly. I just do not think there should be any sort of law where anyone can shoot to kill. It would bring back that "Ok Coral " attitude. Things are wild enough , do we really need guns in the local barista's hands? They can't get an order right , never mind knowing which way to aim a gun !!
;) ;)

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Graham_Cracker

I used to hate growing up...now I'm glad it's happening. Should I be worried about that? *IRONY*

Member Since: 2/23/2007