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by ahumbleman from Essex County

Last Post 40 days, 20 hours Ago


I used to think myself somewhat of a libertarian when it came to people spending their money. My view was (and still is to some extent) “hey, if you want to blow your money on stupid things, go right ahead but I don’t want to hear when you’re broke how you don’t understand you got into this situation.” However, casino gambling presents a whole different set of issues, all of them complex and all of them warrant careful consideration.

 

It irks me to no end when I hear individuals say, “This casino question is a no-brainer, opponents of this are short-sighted,” or whatever other insult proponents decide to hurl at people of seriously question the wisdom of bringing casino gambling to the Commonwealth. I do believe in fact, that people who are jumping up and down demanding that this Casino be built, because “we need the money” are the ones who are incredibly short-sighted.

 

Should town residents approve the casino deal this upcoming Saturday, it would still probably take about 5-10 years for any casino resort to become a reality. The reason for this is because the Indian tribe will still have to negotiate with the state to build a Class III gaming facility. (Class III gambling facilities are allowed to have slots, blackjack, etc.) And as long as Sal Dimasi is Speaker of the House, the prospects of a Class III gaming facility remain murky at best. Now, should the tribe and Commonwealth reach an accord, by the time the resort is ready to be built, Middleborough could be facing one of two scenarios, 1) their budget situation could be worse than today, and now the deal isn’t as sweet as it was when it first got signed, or 2) Their budget woes could pass, and the residents suddenly decide they don’t really want a casino but are now powerless to stop it.

 

For those who think that building this casino is a great idea, I beseech you to think seriously about your position. If and when this casino resort gets built, the character of the town will change irrevocably. Middleborough will no longer be a small, quiet town. It is literally impossible for a town to call themselves “small” that is by design supposed to attract hundreds of thousands of residents across New England. The town will never again be the same. Also, if and when the casino is built, residents will have to pray that the casino will never close, or move because quite simply, you’ll be f’ed financially if it ever does.

 

Secondly, Captainseapig is right, a casino’s job is to take as much of your money as it can get from you. Normally, when you go to a business establishment and give them money, you get some good or service in return. This is not the case with a casino, you give them money, and the vast majority of times you get nothing in return. Residents of Middleborough, if you approve this casino deal, you will be selling the soul of your town for short-term financial gain.

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Graham_Cracker read my blog view my photos
Jul 24, 2007 | 12:05 PM

Way to go, ahumbleman...check my comments on various other threads. I applaud your "testicular fortitude."

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jul 24, 2007 | 12:16 PM

I still think that the perfect solution would be for it to be approved and built (free enterprise) and then to go out of business because people decided gambling was not a good thing to do.....

ahumbleman read my blog view my photos
Jul 24, 2007 | 1:21 PM

The problem as I see it though Chip is under the deal that the town and the tribe have, if and when the casino resort does get built, you have Middleborough in essence going "all-in". The town of Middleborough's (which has a population just north of 20,000) future financial health will be completely dependent on the success of the casino. If a casino is opened in Middleborough, and it goes out of business in 10 years, the likely result would be a complete financial disaster for the town.

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jul 24, 2007 | 3:06 PM

Actually, that might be the "scare", but it isn't necessarily so. You might look at a couple of small towns out west as examples. The small community of Warwick had a prison. The commonwealth paid a bunch of money "in lieu of taxes" to the town. They closed the prison camp. Warwick is still a vibrant little town...they have made adjustments. The Town of Rowe had a nuclear power plant. The residents paid no property taxes....the nuclear power plant shut down...now they pay similar property taxes as surrounding communities.

It wholly depends on how well the "powers that be" manage the money...

Besides, I know what I suggested was a "pipe dream". I just hate to see government ban stuff so people don't have to be personally respoinsible...it is the direction we have been going, and it has proven over and over again to be the wrong direction.

amomholdsmany read my blog
Jul 24, 2007 | 8:30 PM

In other words, the casino doesn't only pilfer pockets (offering nothing but +/-1000 to 1 ratio in overall odds), the casino brings an whole web of wide spectrum compromises for every individual occurring over the next generation, bearing the weight of hundreds of thousands to several millions in traveling patrons over that period. How well really are the townspeople AND the surrounding townspeople -- given their outside interim absorbtion of the extrapolated #s over that time? Surely there are hidden consequences, e.g., all the more traffic demands = increased need for health/emergency support and the proper impact studies don't seem to be in place to bring forward a vote so soon. Every person in Middleborough and the surrounding & supporting corridor/s should seriously consider AHUMBLEMAN's post. Looks like pirates in 5th Avenue clothing to a mom. I would encourage rejecting the proposal if even because the speed at which this has come about, in weeks behind closed doors, only just having been published (#1 news story) -- looks like a "snatch and grab" to me. "Act in haste, repent at leisure" and your children and your children's children's children. Thanks.

Xantun read my blog view my photos
Jul 24, 2007 | 8:57 PM

Humble, you make good points against the casino idea, and I agree, but I remember reading somewhere that even if the voters don't accept the deal offered by the tribe, the casino could still be built anyway...Which, if I've remembered correctly, means that the town would still have to host, but wouldn't see any part of the deal as it is today. I think about the only way to fully stop the casino is if the state government decides to not allow casino gambling in the state...However, politicians displaying ANY sense at all isn't the norm.

lonewolf01844 read my blog view my photos
Jul 24, 2007 | 9:25 PM

then get rid of the dog and horse tracks cause that is cruelity to animals and remember the white man took from the native american first its time to give back I was raised by native americans (apache to be exact) and its time we pay them back for steal their land and raping their women and we all have ancestors that have done them wrong and still to this day they are still treated as third class and if we wanna do away with a casino then do away with the lottery also. Cause if you want the trueth there is a waste of money!!!! so do away with it all.... you talk about traffic then blow up the tunnels cause they are all nothing but death traps....

amomholdsmany read my blog
Jul 24, 2007 | 10:05 PM

In other words, the casino doesn't only pilfer pockets (offering nothing but +/-1000 to 1 ratio in overall odds), the casino brings an whole web of wide spectrum compromises for every individual occurring over the next generation, bearing the weight of hundreds of thousands to several millions in traveling patrons over that period. How well really are the townspeople AND the surrounding townspeople -- given their outside interim absorbtion of the extrapolated #s over that time? Surely there are hidden consequences, e.g., all the more traffic demands = increased need for health/emergency support and the proper impact studies don't seem to be in place to bring forward a vote so soon. Every person in Middleborough and the surrounding & supporting corridor/s should seriously consider AHUMBLEMAN's post. Looks like pirates in 5th Avenue clothing to a mom. I would encourage rejecting the proposal if even because the speed at which this has come about, in weeks behind closed doors, only just having been published (#1 news story) -- looks like a "snatch and grab" to me. "Act in haste, repent at leisure" and your children and your children's children's children. Thanks.

amomholdsmany read my blog
Jul 24, 2007 | 10:59 PM

LoneWolf, a casino cannot, in any way, give restoration for historical atrocities and only a select few tribal members ever really benefit from the "take." This is NOT a Native American undertaking. This is cannibal industry funded by foreign "gaming" influence superimposed to resemble a wigwam restoration with NO interest in improving the plight/blight suffered by a beautiful people to this very day. The bitterness between peoples is an artificial ingredient intended to keep us, all, gullible and prey for the robber barons. "Indian gaming" occurs at pow-wows, not casinos. This is another example for Xantun's "stupidity" posts -- how easily we're "sold a bill of goods" because of the way they make it "sound." "Appearances can be deceiving" and "all that glitters isn't gold." How can we be so-o-o far removed from our parents' cautiousness. They'd never permit this ruse to succeed -- why gambling's never been welcome in Massachusetts. Even the lottery took years to develop and reach the level of acceptable "soundness" before it was ratified. "There's a sucker born every minute?" Thanks.

lonewolf01844 read my blog view my photos
Jul 24, 2007 | 11:39 PM

well we have different opions on that far as restoration but I lived it but hey we are all welcome to our own thoughts on matters like this but oh well and for your info the money is divided amoung the whole tribe I know this cause ours recieved a token from casinos and Even though I was raised in a gambling state I never stepped into a casino till I was 30 yrs and moved out here and that was foxwoods since then its been 9 years Ive been here and I have been in the casino 4 times I am not a so called gambler but I do see and welcome both sides but I honest feel if you disapprove one then you should disapprove all things including lottery.Far as crime anything you can find at a casino I can find right in everyones backyard... until you know ALL the facts from a tribe and their elders you can not comment on what they do with the money and far as helping the state out I know when Missouri opened their casinos they gave a portion to the school systems and now their rating is higher then any of the boston schools and conn. gives money left and right to the schools maybe thats something middleborough ought to think about (put it in the contract)!!!!!!!

lonewolf01844 read my blog view my photos
Jul 24, 2007 | 11:53 PM

another way is for the state to step and say hey we are taking over and regulating things here it won't take 5 yrs maybe 1 money talks B.S. walks I've been in meetings with theelders there talking about the casinos but there is alaw which on the reservation the state nor city can much say wether a casino or not some laws are over looked but alot of tribes cannot get financed on the reservations and far as pirates go in 5th ave clothing what certian politions in this state are any better? NOT!!! and far as suckers born every minute well don't gamble then or play the lottery cause lets see pick 6 numbers out of amillion combinations thats even what we call a fools game..I can guarentee that half of the people here b****ing will be gambling in the casino when or if it opens far as it(the casino) going belly up won't happen they are backed by very wealthy people....I heard through the grape vine some of the financial backers are from the midwest and trust me they have the power and influence..

ahumbleman read my blog view my photos
Jul 25, 2007 | 7:58 AM

Xantun,
The tribe does have a right to build the casino, but as I understand it, they do not own the land in Middleborough, so it wouldn't necessarily be built in the town if the voters killed the measure. And Lonewolf, I can absolutely promise you that I won't ever set foot in any casino that comes to Massachusetts.

amomholdsmany read my blog
Jul 25, 2007 | 8:23 AM

Lonewolf, I agree with much of your position. The "5th Ave. suits" are worn by robber barons of every ethnicity. I'm against ALL gambling on principle. Did you know that state lotteries evolved as a way to interfere in the "mob's" lucrative daily number racket of olde? You and others have received "a token" from another casino? Precisely my point. These groups PRETEND affiliation with absolutely no interest in uplifting the people, except for that "token" recognition. My personal view is that this is a "bad move" for everyone. We can better "educate" our children by funding them through the re-arranged rackets?? How absurd! (Not you, the philosophy.) DeNiro gave the telling line in the opening moments of the movie "Casino: Mom & Dad dropping junior's college fund in a weekend." As a society, we're in the "cyclone experiment" of restricting people's abilities rather than exercising principles and potential. There will be terrible repercussions from this -- so terrible no one wants to look -- focusing on the "money, money, money" as an always effective distraction from the truth. I'm not a prude. I'm just not a fool. Thanks.

lonewolf01844 read my blog view my photos
Jul 25, 2007 | 11:58 AM

I do agree amomholdsmany you are right in many ways yes we (not my parents) but my great grandfather did recieve money from the casinos my parents decided not to take when my grandfather died they wanted no part of and to this day they still have neverhad anything to do with the tribe or its money mom says I have to much of my grandfather in me and I am just as stubborn and pig headed lol..lol..lol..

amomholdsmany read my blog
Jul 25, 2007 | 5:06 PM

Lonewolf,
Stay that way. There are too, too few men left which adhere to principles above politics. Just the other day a younger man complimented a friend of mine because my friend "watches out" for the crew. I told the younger, "I hope you, young whippersnappers, are smart enough to learn from him. There are too few old timers left upon which we can depend. If you like the legend, l-e-a-r-n the fine art of manhood not fickle-hood!" What an appreciative grin I got in return. Thanks.

heatherfont read my blog view my photos
Jul 25, 2007 | 6:12 PM

This should be looked at from the standpoint of what this country's economy is based on -- free enterprise and capitalism. The proposed casino is going to mean thousands of jobs, and therefore more income tax and overall revenue for the state. If you don't like gambling, don't go. Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods have done very well on the money of many a Massachusetts resident. Also, they have both become premier concert and event locations, are very well managed, are pleasant to look at, and actually boost the tourism of the local area. I think people are making a bigger deal of this than need be. I don't see how folks in Middleboro would be "selling their souls" by letting this pass. Also, I would be willing to bet (pun intended) that the vast majority of attendees at the casinos are not chronic gamblers or troublemakers, but people spending their time and money for fun. I am not a gambler, but that doesn't give me the right to judge others that enjoy doing so.

RGADSBY read my blog
Jul 25, 2007 | 9:58 PM

THE TOWN AND THE CASINO BACKERS ARE TRYING TO FORCE THIS GOOD DEAL DOWN OUR THROUTS. IF IT IS SUCH A GOOD DEAL WHY ONLY GIVE THE VOTERS 4 DAYS TO DIGEST THE DEAL? I QUESTION WHY THEY DON'T GIVE THE RESIDENTS TIME TO QUESTION AND INVESTIGATE THE PROPOSAL. WHEN IN DOUBT I WOULD VOTE NO!!!!

Chip read my blog view my photos
Jul 26, 2007 | 9:15 AM

heatherfont, I'm almost always with you expecially when you sing the free market economy tune. but I have been listening closely to captainseapig on this one. He makes a persuasive argument that a casino exists for the purpose of supporting people in the desire/fantasy that you can get something for nothing. As such, it has a perniciious effect on the work ethic of our society.

I'm persuaded against casino gambling....money or no money.

lonewolf01844 read my blog view my photos
Jul 26, 2007 | 6:44 PM

Whats wrong with desire and fantasy? you don't get something for nothing you have to place a bet to win or lose you do the same thing with the lottery,Everybody reguardless of age race or sex has a dream of being financially set cause if they didn't then why is it alot of Ma residents run to NH when the power ball gets big?

heatherfont read my blog view my photos
Jul 26, 2007 | 9:52 PM

I guess my point is that it's other people's money to spend, and if they want to waste it on fantasy, so be it. Perhaps we should outlaw breast enhancement, girdles, and hairpieces as well because it belittles honesty from our society (of course, I am being facetious...I am a huge fan of yours, Chip!).

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ahumbleman

Men are equal; it is not birth but virtue that makes the difference.

Member Since: 2/16/2007