As an atheist, I always had this quirky fantasy of inventing my own religion and trying to see if I couldn’t make myself into the next L.Ron Hubbard and retire a millionaire with tax free status…I don’t know something like…Jesus was really an alien sent down to finish what aliens started when they infused their DNA sequences into the primates 7,000 years ago…and that the aliens will come again in revenge for executing one of their own…but only I—your spiritual leader—has the secret codes that will allow you and your children to be spared from their evil death rays…or something like that—I haven’t worked out the details. If I had only been born in the 1,800’s, I might have been able to pull it off, but Joe Smith beat me to it..
Enter the Mormons…ding--dong.
As you know, Captain Seapig is an unabashed Mormon and until recently I didn’t really know much about Mormonism. I just assumed it was yet another protestant product founded by disgruntled Xtians who felt the RC Church was too papist, so whenever the Captain would add to the discussion, I felt remiss that I didn’t understand his perspective, so I promised him that I would read the Book of Mormon and get back to him on my conclusions in a special blog devoted just to him and any other Mormons that wanted to chime in.
Promise kept.
Now before I get to my critique, keep two things in mind:
1. This is not personal. I have nothing against the Captain personally. He sounds like a good guy, family man, solid citizen, patriot—all that. The same methods I use to debunk Hinduism, Xtianity, Buddhism, paganism, Shintoism, etc, I’ve used here, so there is not special dispensation towards, nor quarter given to Mormons.
2. 2. For those non-Mormon Xtians that I’ve locked horns with in previous debates, here is your opportunity to see from a neutral perspective the scientific process by which religions are debunked. I’m fond of saying to deists that you and us atheists are very, very similar…you just believe in one more god than we do!
Those who have read my blogs know that I think Xtians are pretty silly for believing in Jesus as the Messiah/Son of God. I don’t think they are silly for believing in the afterlife, as I’ve pointed out many times, that, is an instinct for survival that employs Xtian faith, but the actual theology is really quite ridiculous. I mean, a 7,000-year-old universe…an ark that manages to get all the particular life forms on earth into their respective places…flaming chariots…bulimic whales…immaculate conceptions…resurrections…assumptions? Quite fantastic, unbelievable and lacking any scientific evidence, or proof…
But the Book of Mormon takes Xtian fantasy to a whole new level and as a fan of Mitt Romney, I am embarrassed that someone with so much business acumen and cogent processes could be so gullible as to believe in this fiction, but hey, smarter men believed the earth was flat, so…I guess what I’m trying to say is that I love the sinner, I just hate the sin!
But I digress…
The Book of Mormon in a nutshell is the work of Joseph Smith, an 18th century prophet—who was born right here in New England (Vermont)—moved to Upstate New York then to Ohio and founded a religion known today as Church of Latter Day Saints. I know that is a very brief and shoddy summary, but the biography of Joseph Smith is not in dispute. (To find out more, just “google” the guy if you want a full biography) I am more concerned with the BOM itself and I am going to debunk it on two main points:
Now, what I’ve always tried to emphasize whenever I debate Xtians about the Bible, is when reading the Bible—don’t cherry pick verses in a vacuum…context, context, context! Don’t just recite Mark 6:14. Who was Mark...what was going on during the period Mark was written…who was Mark’s audience…how did this impact his Gospel…how is Mark’s gospel different from the others…and why? So too, the BOM was also written by a man, but what was going on in America at this time and who was his audience?
Well, even Mormons don’t debate that Joseph Smith needed the support of others in the intellectual and Brahmin societies to promote his work. Within these social circles, people of this ilk would typically collect art, attend museum showings, peruse galleries and generally support any program that retrieved archaeological artifacts and could make sense of it. One of the hot button genres within this community was Egyptology. At the time the Egyptian government had little or no concern for maintaining its own artifacts, so artifact traders were literally bringing in artifacts by the boatload and making money parading them around within these blue blood circles. Someone like an Isabella Gardener would be exactly the target demographic for these peddlers and archeologists. In fact, several of the pieces acquired by museums during this period have either been reimbursed, or sent on tour and displayed with several pre-conditions, or with deference to the Egyptian government.
Everyone was a buzz over Egypt, and because there was little well established dissemination of scholarly information, there was the wide-open canvas of conjecture that made it even more fascinating. It would be easy to compare a Pyramid and a Mayan Ziggurat and conclude the two were related, but educated people now know that a Ziggurat was designed to tumble sacrificed victims down as many steep stairs as possible, hence the shape, while pyramids were designed to house valuable remains under a stable structure reaching several stories employing mud brick without I-beams, hence its shape. But it could be possible to convince a great number of very rich and influential people in those days that the Mayans were actually Egyptians that made it over here a thousand years ago. Enter Joe Smith and his “vision.”
1
Historical Inaccuracy
Whenever I debate Xtians about the accuracy of the Bible, I never have to go farther than the Book of Genesis. Basically, I ask the Xtian if they believe that the Bible is the 100% inerrant word of god. In most cases the Xtian always answers “yes” to that question—and with good reason, because if one can disprove that one sentence is errant, then a whole can of worms gets opened up as to the validity of the entire work. If I’ve learned anything about Xtians is that they are intellectually lazy, as it’s just easier to believe an entire book is 100% true than actually reading it and determining which verses are true and which ones aren’t.
Well, the Bible claims the earth is ~7,000 years old. Does anyone actually believe that the earth is only 7,000 years old…that shortly before the rise of the Babylonian Empire the earth was created in 6 days? I have personally held in my latex covered hands fossils that date back 27,000 years! There is no way one can prove scientifically that the earth was created 7,000 years ago…that is just ridiculous, ergo from the very first paragraph in Genesis, the Bible already contains at least one error and therefore each subsequent paragraph is suspect and needs to be judged on an ad hoc basis. The Bible is NOT 100% accurate and so too goes the BOM.
The BOM claims that in the Mesoamerican period, several technological advances had been achieved: chariots (the wheel), steel (swords/blacksmithing) and silk, yet we know from archeological evidence that the early Mesoamerican peoples had not achieved these.
The BOM describes a pre-Columbian America that is much different than the one scientists believe to have really existed. There are several crops and species of animals that did not exist before this period (cows, horses, pigs, sheep and elephants along with wheat and barley) but several that actually DID exist are not mentioned in the BOM (deer, monkeys, sloths and turkeys along with chocolate, squash and potatoes)
The BOM claims that the Native peoples employed a 7-day week when in fact there is absolutely no evidence that a 7-day calendar was employed by any tribes here. Actually, since the uncovering of the Mayan sites in Mexico, we have come to find out a great deal of how the native peoples logged the passing of days and weeks and they do not coincide with a Gregorian-style ratio.
BOM claims that the American continent was uninhabited when Nephi arrived here, but we know there were millions of Native peoples already living here.
Lastly, the BOM claims that there occurred a cataclysmic battle in which the Nephites were all destroyed, yet despite several Mormon sponsored recovery missions, this ancient battle site has not been discovered, nor any relic, or artifacts proving that thousands of people perished. At the end of the day, the onus of proof is on the Mormons, yet they have not been able to show anyone any artifact that proves their case.
Authenticity
Linguistically, there is no credible link between Egyptian and Mesoamerican language. Mormons have attempted to pawn off Egyptian funeral documents that were making their way through the various museums in America during the 19th Century, but these documents have been found to be nothing more than relics taken from Egyptian burial sites, and even Mormons have had to conclude the same, but they spin it that higher revelation could have been transmitted from simple documents by a prophet like Joe Smith. Yeah…OK.
Mesoamerican language DOES have several similarities with Siberian and Asian language, but not Egyptian, let alone “Reformed Egyptian.” One of the clues when trying to link languages is by cross referencing proper names…so when studying the BOM names like Nephi and Laman do not cross reference, and more damaging to the Mormon case is that if the Jews had indeed left the Middle east before 600 BCE, any Hellenistic influence would not have impacted that culture by then, so proper Greek names such as Lachoneus, Timothy and Jonas would not have existed.
The overall problem with the Book of Mormon is that it is written in King’s English...(thouest shant cometh to thee whist a mere abomination of lore and folly) etc. Whenever I see books such as these I am VERY skeptical from the get-go because it gives the propagandist an automatic “out” when cornered with a contradiction, or error in the work. “Oh, that’s not what it says. You are taking it out of context. Obviously he meant to say, ‘Thine empathy is but a vast opinion,’ not, ‘MY empathy is yet a vast opinion!’” So I know before I submit my first rebuttal, the excuses are “built in.”
Historically, god has never had much trouble conveying his wishes to us. In the OT, if you didn’t obey god, he would kill your kids, have your wife gang raped by the enemy, and he’d turn your fields fallow for good measure. God was not cryptic…obey, or else. Mark’s Gospel has a unique and opposite tone to it…it seems Mark’s Jesus can never get the people around him to comprehend any of the points he was making and in the few times he did get through, he would command that person to keep it a secret, but overall, the NT carries on the tradition that if you disobey god’s will, there will be hell to pay…literally.
So I have a hard time believing the spirit would move any scribe or prophet to create a novel that is so arcane, convoluted and quixotic (but more on this later). That would not be very intelligent to design such a confusing codex of instructions, commands and recommendations that carries eternal ramifications. But hey, that’s the scientist in me talking…maybe you Xtians ought to chime in as to whether or not your eternal destination hinges upon literary connotation and your knowledge of 15th century syntax?
But it is this very King’s English-style book that is so damning to the Mormon case. First, it’s just plain common sense that if any one of us uncovered a relic in a foreign language and felt inspired to translate it, that we’d write down our translation in English—modern day American English. Why? Because that’s what a translation is…that’s why! But “no,” not Joe Smith…he finds a relic and translates it into King’s English…or did he?
There are disputes that much of the BOM is lifted from the KJV, which so happens to also be written in this arcane language. Hmmmm…Mormons claim that the similarities are coincidental, that there is one god, so it makes sense that his message would be congruent from prophet to prophet, but everyone knows (at least I hope) that the Bible was not written in King’s English—it was written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek--in whatever tongue the person to whom god is speaking.
But the clincher for me—and why I think the BOM is a load of crap—is that Biblical Scholars agree that the New Testament’s 1st Gospel, Mark was written with a certain unique style. Additionally, the most reliable earliest Greek manuscripts, the Codex Sinaiticus, also bolster the opinion that the final 12 verses of Mark are add-ons by a later scribe. The Gospel is supposed to end with Mary going to the tomb, finding it empty and then telling no one. This is congruent with Mark’s style of writing and with the original texts, but the addendum is out of sync with Mark texturally and stylistically even if it makes it congruent with the other 3 Gospels, which is probably why it was altered in the first place.
If this addendum, which is believed by Biblical Scholars to be a man-made alteration by scribes, then god would not reveal it as a vision to be written down and preached as divine revelation 18 hundred years later, yet there it is in the BOM (9:22-24). Not only plagiarized, but a Biblical error plagiarized to boot!
In closing, like I said earlier, this is not personal—seriously—I’m a big Mitt fan, voted for him and would have voted for him…god knows especially now a candidate with a great financial background would win in a landslide. Furthermore, every time I’ve debated the Captain, he’s been a gentleman, but as an atheist, the onus is not on me to disprove Xtian myths—although I enjoy doing it. The onus is on you, and so far, no Mormon has been able to demonstrate the historical claims in the BOM from a linguistic, anthropological, archeological, biological and textural point of view. To me it sounds like Joe Smith, rode a wave of fascination with Egyptology in the 19th century to make some pretty fantastic claims about pre-Columbian Mesoamerican culture and without the scrutiny of the aforementioned sciences fully developed, or widely accessible, was able to maintain the fable until well after the religion was founded and its adherents fully invested beyond skeptical reasoning and established to the level as to write very thorough yet insufficient apologies. It's too late once a religion becomes established to debunk it because the believer always finds a way to continue believing despite the facts to the contrary. I guess my dreams of being the next Sun Young Moon are on hold too.

I have a long story to share with those interested in recovery from addiction. Unfortunately, at this time I do not have the time to remain on this page for too long because i am at work and have to coordinate a Undergae Drinking Prevetnion Drug Task Force shceduled for October 2nd at the Lawrence/Methuen Community Coaliton.
If any one is interested in knowing more information abouth this upcoming meeting, plese call me at 978 975-8793 or via e-mail. There is much work to be done if we ,s a community ,ove our children and our youth. Thank you.
Let’s Get Bunked
Re;
The Bible bunked
Hansonman,
Paragraph 1
What’s being adopted have to do with the bible?
Naaaa…never mind; sometimes a Dendrite is just that…just a dendrite, or a gene is just a gene, but let’s not go there…(we can do another blog on the study of Psychology and weather or not is should be considered a hard science or soft science later and how it may relate to religious/ spiritual experiences and beliefs etc etc .)
“Obtuse” hmmm …interesting choice of words
I guess all us believers are insensitive and stupid….(and ooo don’t forget stubborn). Ok ya got me there! I’m human I get like that some times…
”Eternal Life” …wow, what can I say that’s beyond my comprehension…again; I’m just a human being. But that promise certainly tickles my senses and giggle’s me, silly sometimes. Yet it’s something much more. Its hope, it gives believers the strength to carry on; to do the next right thing…it give ‘s….? Never mind…blame it on the dendrites or neurotransmitters in my brain!
Ok moving on …
Paragraph 2;
Yes, “Wisdom and Understanding”; yes indeed the search for the truth; better than the rubies, sapphires, and the most precise of stones that Proverbs speaks of. I personally like to explore the bible and its roots (in general) and you have rekindled my interest by you blog. So hannsonman ; …you have not sown in vein .
I’m not a woosh, I’m up for an ongoing discussion on this. “Hell…Maybe I’ll learn something along the way” (ooops ; yikes!!!...did I say that four letter word?) The truth will Prevail!! May she reap the eternal sow!!
Owe; oooo;…OK ya got me there ;I’m guilty of the sloth thingy there. Owell; progress not perfection I guess.
OK so what’s next?
“Corrupt files”…I guess we should probably start here huh? What was the story in the game of telephone …naaa Never mind it doesn’t matter. What we know for sure is this; as far as the facts are concerned Lets look at the known evidence, surrounding the case. We start with a problem !
We have a gap in time as you say from verbal communication and the written word as to the events of the life and death, and resurrection of Jesus. We have no hard evidence; but what we do have is the knowledge that this one man changed and charted a new course in human history. One man!!! And for the past what? 1,600/1700 years or so; we’ve had what we have come to know as the scriptures “The New Testament” along with the “Old Testament” Which is much older yet virtually intact sense the day Moses Penned (or chiseled the ten commandments) As far as I know, the major consensus among the top scholars in the world and their evaluation of the evidence is that the oldest written new testament book was “Mark” and from the various sources of availably information can estimate that it was written only about 70 years after the crucifixion of Christ, Yet we didn’t get the bible “The Cannon “ till about 350; 400; years after right?
I guess my first question to you would be to ask if you can give some references of some statements you made in the second paragraph of the “corrupted files” section of your blog. This will also give me some time to do some research and find some things to add we can discuss.
My second question to you is what do you know about the ancient languages? This will be an important issue I think in our discussion (I myself know nothing) so this may take some time and be a lengthy process.
I have managed to find the link to the “Codex Sinaiticus” at;
http://www.biblefacts.org/church/pdf/Codex%20Sinaitic
us.pdf
Along with doing some reading on the Wikipedia Encyclopedia, and I will put some notes together on that. This gets pretty deep and involved huh?
Today we had to say goodbye to a close family friend, he was only 33....
He was a young man who battled many demons, drugs, alchohol, you name it. Despite all was a loving dad of 2 beautiful children and a devoted husband but his illness got the better of him.
It was one of the sadder funerals I've ever attended, a life cut so short. So much left undone, unsaid...I have had my share of funerals and have many loved ones watching over me from above, but their funerals do seem so final, makes everything seem so, I don't know, like the period of a sentence.
Today this priest reminded us today that although it feels like the 'end' for us, it's just a comma in his sentence. He is with God and he will have eternal life. I know all this, I do .. but put the way he put it , just made me feel different somehow.
I'm sad for his wife and children and my friend who lost her only brother. Just another reminder of how short life can be and we are here on borrowed time .. I think Ill call my siblings today just to remind them how much they mean to me...........
Hello,
Having originally come from Franklin, MA - I wanted to say a few words about this nice town that is home to the first public library in the nation. I believe that there still is a one-room school house still in operation (last time I checked).
Franklin has grown considerably over the years with the addition of a shopping mall, as well as 2 commuter rail stations, one in downtown Franklin, and the other at Forge Park, not far from Rte 495.
It is very convenient for commuters going in and out of Boston on a daily basis. Plus, it is full of history, as noted above. Horace Mann, who I believe was known as the "Father of Education", if I am not mistaken, was born here, and his birthplace is marked by a memorial not too far from the downtown section of Franklin.
I had moved to Franklin in 1972 from Hyde Park, when I was a small child, and have noticed the changes thru the years, resulting in the building of new school facilities to accomodate the growth in the town.
I miss Franklin, but have family there, and visit from time to time. Whoever said "You can't go home again", was surely mistaken. I always feel at home when I return for a visit. I had lived there for 20 years, and I have many fond memories, but my life has taken a different path, where being closer to the city is where my path is at.
I am glad to have had the experiences of living in the suburbs as well as the city, as both places are unique in their own special way.
I have shared some of my story on these blogs – just like anyone and everyone else – no one person is better than another – we are all present on planet earth only by the will and grace of God.
What we do with our lives – the decisions we make – lead us down a path – toward perfection or imperfection – either good or evil - only two people truly know the motive of our heart – ourselves and our creator – and one day we will stand before Him – and make no mistake - He will judge us – our hearts and the motives behind every decision – we will stand alone – there will be no finger pointing on that day.
It really does not matter at all if you think this post is heartless – if you are offended at the idea that God will judge us – if you think my words are cruel – what matters is that we put aside our prejudice long enough to allow the truth to speak to us – realize that love can only speak the truth – and to not disregard the truth because we don’t like that it exposes our sin.
It is imperative we deal with our imperfections – today – while we have the time – than to stand as a sinner on judgment day - when time has run out!
What decision will you make when love confronts you with the truth?
I pray we strive for perfection.
For over a year I have been out here in this space that Fox allows me. I have spilled my guts and you have listened. My once enemies are my friends now. I don't pretend to be anything but who I am. Flawed and damaged I have laughed with you and cried. I make no apologies for who I am or what I once was. I hope I have given some people hope that you can come back from depths of hell, stronger and better than before. I have told you of my battles with drugs and alcohol. Unashamed, cause the harm I did was to myself only. I thank God every day that I didn't have children in my life to make there lives miserable. I have heard horrible stories of people who grew up in alcoholic homes. My Mother and Siblings had to bear that burden even from over 200 miles away, they knew David wasn't well. I tried many times over the almost 40 years of addiction to get well. I am so grateful that my Mother lived to see me celebrate almost 7 years of sobriety. Yes Nov. 10, 2008 (8 days shy of my 55th birthday) will be 7 years without a drink or a drug. I have seen many of my friends lose the battle and have questioned why I survived. Coming soon I will write about my journey with Lap Band Surgery. On the 30th of September I will enter the Beth Israel for this procedure. That is another battle of mine. I am very good with diets and can lose weight quite well. I have tons (pardon the pun) of pictures and a closet of clothes from every size to prove it. I am hoping this will give the extra help I need. I know it isn't a cure, but just a little help, just like my going to AA is just a little help for my alcoholism. I know all my friends wish me well.
It's funny how I can get carried away with writing. The above wasn't even what I was going to write about. I wanted to tell you that today Sept. 12, 2008 is the third anniversary of me without a cigarette. I was at my Mother's home in New Jersey on that day. I had to go out onto the balcony to smoke. I was toying with the idea of quiting. I went in the house and I showed my Mother the half pack I still had. In front of her eyes I broke them in two and flushed them down the toilet. I figured if I can stay two weeks with my Mother without a cigarette, I could go the rest of my life without smoking.
So little by little I try to make some changes in my life. I'm sorry I waisted so much time, I'm sorry I hurt so many people along the way. I made a mends to those who would except it and to those who didn't I don't blame you. My family and closest friends are by my side. Now if I forget your name or don't remember what happened last week I don't blame it on alcohol, I blame it on getting old. Three years without a cigarette helps me breathe a little easier and smell a little better. Again Thanks to all my friends and to Fox 25 for giving me this forum.
"Holocaust Denier Gets Three Years"
>>>By VERONIKA OLEKSYN, Associated Press
British historian David Irving pleaded guilty Monday to denying the Holocaust and was sentenced to three years in prison, even after conceding he wrongly said there were no Nazi gas chambers at the Auschwitz concentration camp.
Irving, handcuffed and wearing a navy blue suit, arrived in court carrying a copy of one of his most controversial books "Hitler's War," which challenges the extent of the Holocaust.
"I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," Irving told the court before his sentencing, at which he faced up to 10 years in prison.
Irving, 67, has been in custody since his November arrest on charges stemming from two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989 in which he was accused of denying the Nazis' extermination of 6 million Jews. He has contended that most of those who died at concentration camps such as Auschwitz succumbed to diseases such as typhus rather than execution.
The court convicted Irving after his guilty plea under the 1992 law, which applies to "whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media."..
He was charged under a federal law that makes it a crime to publicly diminish, deny or justify the Holocaust.
Irving had tried to win his provisional release on $24,000 bail, but a Vienna court refused, saying it considered him a flight risk.
Within two weeks of his arrest, he asserted through his lawyer that he had come to acknowledge the existence of Nazi-era gas chambers. Before the trial began, Irving told reporters he now acknowledges that the Nazis systematically slaughtered Jews during World War II.
"History is like a constantly changing tree," he said.
In the past, however, he has claimed that Adolf Hitler knew little if anything about the Holocaust, and he has been quoted as saying there was "not one shred of evidence" the Nazis carried out their "Final Solution" to exterminate the Jewish population on such a massive scale. <<<<<
You may read the article in its entirety at:
Here we discover noted author David Irving - who has for many years maintained the Holocaust never happened and millions of Jewish deaths were the result of disease rather than intentional execution - when faced with imprisonment altered his position. Mr. Irving authored multiple books denying Nazi genocide - has become rich and famous from the many copies sold - and when ultimately confronted on the facts confesses to the truth and admits his error.
Compare this to a sample of first century Christians. None of whom were rich or famous - on the contrary had lost or given up everything they had for their claims of Jesus Christ. When ultimately confronted on the facts - instead of admitting they were in error (as did David Irving) or succumbing to self preservation - and denying what they stood for - submitted themselves to death.
1. Mark is the author of the Gospel According to Mark, the second Gospel in the New Testament, but the earliest. He wrote his Gospel in Rome, accurately recording the testimonies of the apostle Peter and other eyewitnesses to Jesus Christ's life. According to Papias and Saint Clement of Alexandria, Mark wrote his Gospel at the request of the Roman Christians around AD 49.
Mark was martyred in Alexandria around AD 68. On Sunday the 24th of April, pagans seized him as he was preaching, tied his feet with cords and dragged him about the rocky streets, as pieces of his flesh were scattered on the ground. They dragged him the whole day, but he continued to praise God and thank Him for his sufferings. At night he was thrown into prison, where God comforted him in visions. The next day the crowd dragged him again until he died. The Christians gathered up the remains of his body and buried him in Alexandria. It is said that a French monk named Bernard carried Mark's body to Venice in AD 815, where it is buried in a secret place in Saint Mark's Cathedral.
2. The apostle Matthew wrote the Gospel of Matthew. Some of Jesus Christ's miracles and parables are only mentioned in this Gospel. The resurrection of the saints after Jesus' death and their appearance to many in Jerusalem is recorded solely in Matthew's book. The sealing of the tomb of Jesus Christ by the Pharisees and the setting of guards outside it is also told only in this Gospel.
John Foxe states in his Book of Martyrs, that Matthew preached in Egypt and Ethiopia.
He was martyred with a spear in the city of Nadabah, Ethiopia, in AD 60.
Here we find the author of the Gospel of Matthew instead of gaining wealth and fame as David Irving when threatened with death did not back down from his claims recorded in his book.
Imagine, David Irving with multiple books all denying the Holocaust making him financially wealthy - when confronted with imprisonment - denies what he has written and admitting to the truth. Mr. Irving is NOT being threatened with physical torture or death - yet he recants to avoid incarceration. In stark contrast Matthew is run through with a spear.
3. Peter is the author of two books: The First and the Second Epistle of Peter.
According to John Foxe's Book of Martyrs, Peter was killed in Rome at the order of Nero around AD 68, one of thousands of Christians martyred during this emperor's reign. According to Tertullian and Origen, he was crucified head downwards at his request. He said he was unworthy to be crucified the same way as Jesus Christ.
Another first century author who claimed Christ was crucified and preached the resurrection, when confronted (not with imprisonment as David Irving) but the most hideous form of death imaginable requests to be hung upside down!
4. The New Testament contains thirteen Epistles written by Paul to Christian congregations and individuals: Romans, First Corinthians, Second Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, First Thessalonians, Second Thessalonians, First Timothy, Second Timothy, Titus and Philemon.
In the first century during Nero's persecutions against the Christians, Paul was beheaded in Rome, reportedly the same day Peter was crucified, around AD 68.
Any intelligent individual must understand the implications.
These authors who testified by their writings to events they experienced, witnessed and heard - when confronted with gruesome means of death - not once recanted.
A person does not submit themselves to death for what they know to be a lie - just ask David Irving.